Season 3, Episode 29

How We Recruit to Build Great Software Teams

On this episode, the Detroit Labs’ Talent Specialist team shares their experience recruiting, evaluating, and supporting candidates from well before they apply on through the entire application process, and beyond. Team members Nicole Minaudo, Pedro Gutierrez, and Rowan Blaisdell discuss evolving recruiting practices, ways your organization can restore balance to the candidate-to-organization relationship, and above all else, finding great people.

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Dan:

Tobi, how are you?

Tobi:

Good. That was a really cool intro. I officially miss downtown. I need to go.

Dan:

Yes. I feel every single time I see it, I’m excited about that intro. Well done Dave, on that. Many hours, I am sure of putting that together. Welcome back to Labs Live. We haven’t been on for a month. I guess that’s just our normal cadence, but today is going to be a great episode. We’re talking about recruiting, how we approach it to hire great software development teams, software developers, designers, delivery leads, QEs. I mean, you name it. Our talent specialists are joining us today and they do a great job of getting out there, connecting with candidates, working them through our process and overall just finding really great people because at the end of the day, it’s not just what you know, or what your skillset is. It’s about finding really great people.

Tobi:

Yep. And that’s how Labs have always worked is like when you just find great people, they are able to learn new things and be great.

Dan:

All right. Some housekeeping stuff. One thing, Alex already said, it’s a great city. That’s an actual fact. Thank you, Alex.

Dan:

You can go to our YouTube channel and maybe you’re watching there right now, but subscribe. And then if you go to LinkedIn, you can follow us there. And then Instagram, we’ve got a ton of great Instagram content right now, specifically around stories. Day in the life. I don’t know Tobi, if you’ve seen them? Diana’s thrown together these day in the life. I watched the one of Han, one of our UI/UX designers, and it was fantastic.

Tobi:

I watched his own too. It was really cool, going through the whole day at different types of stories. It was really nice.

Dan:

We need one for you, Tobi, so we can just see every property that you go to throughout the day so we know exactly where you are. I think that would be Fantastic.

Dan:

Let’s get right into things. I’m going to introduce our talent specialists. We have three of them joining us today. They make up a phenomenal team. Nicole, Pedro and Rowan. I’m going to bring them in now. Hello. How are you all doing?

Dan:

All right. So let’s kick this off with the current market that we’re in right now. We went through a very interesting time in 2020. I think we went through some freezing when it comes to hiring. And I think we’re in just the opposite of that right now. And the market’s a bit wild. What are you all seeing?

Nicole:

Yeah, we’ve definitely seen a lot of companies, Detroit Labs included, but this year I think everybody was like, okay, we know that our people can be remote and be productive. So we don’t just have to pause, hiring, or lay people off. In fact, let’s ramp up and double what we normally hire for every year. So it’s been really interesting and exciting to see so many opportunities open up out there for people in the tech field.

Dan:

As you’re going out to the market and you’re looking to connect with people, what channels do you use? Is it just LinkedIn? I don’t know why, I always feel like LinkedIn is the place to reach out to candidates, but maybe there’s more events or anything like that?

Rowan:

Yeah. LinkedIn is a great place because you get to see an idea of someone’s background and experience on LinkedIn, which is always a plus to get to know what they do and who they are a little bit before you reach out. But something else that is outside of the realm of just like recruitment necessarily is our CoLabs community, which is something that we host, after hours, once a month. That’s been a great way for us to stay in connection with our candidates who were just talking to, or maybe they took another job somewhere, but they love Labs. And they want to just keep connecting with us over time to keep us in mind. We meet with them for study halls and things. So those events have been super helpful for keeping those connections going and chatting with people outside of just work stuff.

Tobi:

Yeah. And from the developers side of you and they probably get a lot of messages from talent specialists, headhunters, recruiters, all the things. So what kind of things do you do as a team to stand out from the crowd? Because the crowd is really big.

Pedro:

Absolutely. This past year especially has taught us to find new and creative ways to reach out to people. One of the biggest things that I’ve learned is nobody wants to talk to a robot. Nobody wants to get a form message and nobody wants to get that same form message three times a day. So really trying to personalize what you’re doing when you’re reaching out to people. You’d mentioned LinkedIn Sales Navigator, things of that sort. That’s great to reach out to people, but also just really trying to tailor it to what a person is interested in. If they want to know about jobs for the future, absolutely, we can talk and keep up our conversation for not just right now, but down the road as well. But really keeping track of what somebody might be interested in and speaking to that.

Rowan:

Jumping on that point too, when you’re reaching out to somebody and maybe it’s your first point of contact with that person, as far as making the message different while they’re going through the million messages have in their LinkedIn inbox. I want that candidate to feel like they’re a person first when I’m reaching out to them, not a candidate first. So I want to ask them how they’re doing. I want to ask them about their day.

Rowan:

When I get them on the phone for the first time I’m going to ask them, even though it’s cliche about the weather where they’re at and see how they’ve been enjoying that, and if it’s sunny or if it’s rainy because I want them to feel that personal connection with me before we get into talking about a job so that they feel like, okay, I’m not talking to Detroit Labs right now. I’m talking to rowan. That’s what’s important to me when I make that connection.

Dan:

I love that because just at the end of the day, they’re just jobs. And you have a life beyond work, you have a life beyond your job. And I think if you can create a connection with somebody and they feel like they are a whole person in the eyes of a business, I think that’s important.

Dan:

You talked to a decent segue here in really trying to understand what opportunities work for individuals. So at Detroit Labs, we’re in an interesting situation where we have a number of opportunities. We have tech stacks, we have different clients, we have services, then we have onsite, we’re integrated with the client. So I really think that at the end of the day, it’s like this massive bucket of different opportunities, some similar and some just radically different. So when we were talking about this before, Nicole, I’m going to jump over to you because I thought this was just a really, really interesting way of putting it. You gave me a real estate agent metaphor. Explain that for everybody, because I think it’s a great way to look at this.

Nicole:

Yeah, definitely. This metaphor came to me this past year because we do have so many different opportunities at Detroit Labs. And the talent specialist team, one of our favorite parts, because we’re not just trying to shoe horn every developer into a role because we need to fill a role. There is a ton of opportunity. And so I like to think of the way we work is, we meet our candidates, we do our first interviews. Once they’re great, what we really try to do is learn from them very early on what sorts of things they’re interested in. What sorts of projects? What sorts of industries? What sorts of team sizes? Remote? In an office? Anything you can imagine that deals with your work and then as the talent specialist team, we know about probably 20 jobs at a given time across services and onsite.

Nicole:

So we can actually go then and have a call with our candidate before we’re just submitting them to every role and saying, Hey, I’ve got this role with this automotive company. I’ve got this role with this. This is this. And letting them decide which opportunities they’d like to be submitted for, pursue, almost like a real estate agent. They’re going to show you three or four houses based on what you said you’re looking for in your next home. Your job is kind of your home from nine to five in most cases. And letting them really be the one to decide what the right opportunity. And if it’s not one today, chances are, we’ll have a new one next week and being able to keep in touch and let them know about the things that are really important to them.

Tobi:

Yeah. And Nicole too, in our conversations, you’ve shared a lot about people who you’ve had conversations and even sometimes six months later, seven months, two years later, because you are constantly thinking about their interests, what they like, and then they eventually find a role that is perfect for them. So sometimes it happens so quick, but that real estate agent thing is like sometimes you’re looking for a house and you don’t find the right one and you don’t force it and you just wait it out. And then the perfect one eventually comes through.

Nicole:

Yeah. Thanks, Tobi. I think it’s important to take good notes about your candidates and what’s important to them. And just because you’re not looking for a job today, doesn’t mean you’re not going to want one in six months or a year. And so being able to follow up. I literally have one candidate we’ve been talking for three years. Once a year, I sent him an email that says, annual check-in how are you doing. He’s like, I can’t believe you’re still doing this. And I’m like, are you still doing this since we last chatted? [crosstalk 00:10:25] It’s because that person was fantastic. And I want them to get a feeling that they’re not just a number or a candidate, but that I genuinely want to work for them and help them in their journey and their career path.

Dan:

That’s awesome. It speaks volumes that after three years doing an annual check-in, and they’re answering your email. I feel just getting an answer to any email in general is a challenge, whether it’s recruiting or whether it’s sales. So I think that’s a Testament very much to the rapport that you are building and the connection that you are building on an individual level with these candidates.

Dan:

Once you’ve identified a potential opportunity, you’re a real estate agent. You’ve said, you know what, this person they’re going to love this react job integrated with Company X. And as a real estate agent, you’re presenting that opportunity similar to how real estate agents present Tobi with many real estate opportunities as a mogul. Maybe talk me through a little bit of the actual process, once you’ve identified something and once you bring them into more of the tactical process, maybe walk us through that.

Nicole:

Yeah. Row or Pedro, do you want to take that one, since I just talked a bit?

Rowan:

I think Pedro’s got it.

Pedro:

Sure. So at that point in the process, we’ve already determined that they’re going to be a great addition to any team that a person would be part of. Me at services or onsite. And one of the things that we’ve really want to make sure is part of the process is preparing the candidate for potential interviews. The next steps in interviews they can be one interview where it might be another kind of phone screen, get to know you. It could be a more technical assessment. Whatever it is, we want to make sure that each of the candidates is feeling prepared for it. The idea of having gotcha moments in interviews it’s something that still persists to this day, but it’s also what kind of data point would you actually get from that? What kind of info would you get by catching someone off guard? That doesn’t really feel like good information.

Pedro:

It doesn’t really feel like something you’d want to have on display for really anybody and any experience for applying for roles. So being very transparent about the process, being very open and making suggestions for how you can prep for those types of interviews. Be it in front of other team members with Detroit Labs, be it in front of a client. That’s something that definitely, we want to make sure everyone is prepared for. And going back to what Nicole had mentioned earlier, this isn’t about shoehorning somebody into a particular spot. It really is about ensuring that it’s the best position for them at the right time.

Rowan:

I think that’s something that makes us stand out so much because I’ve never heard of another organization helping to do interview prep with their candidates, or even necessarily sitting down to help them rework a resume to make sure that it looks just perfect to help them get that dream job of theirs. I think that’s something that sets us apart because we take the time out to do those things for our candidate. Not because we want them to get the job necessarily, but because we want them to be successful. We want to give them those building blocks to help that success happen. That’s something I really enjoy about doing this work too.

Nicole:

Yeah. [crosstalk 00:14:01] To add onto that, I’ve had the opportunity to sit in on interviews with some other companies, as well as our own, and then our Detroit Lab Services ones. And for years, I always just had this thought in my mind, like, yep, you just schedule the interview, a candidate shows up. Even being the candidate and I’m just expected to improv answers. I don’t know what you’re going to ask me. But one thing that I’ve seen that I love that we do at Services is we send candidates the questions they’re going to be asked ahead of time in their interview. We send them the homework and what they’ll be asked. The talent specialists are doing that with a lot of our onsite clients as well. And then our candidates, services or onsite can go in and speak, have time to prepare and share their best selves.

Nicole:

I’ve seen so many interviews out there where they’re like, yeah, it’ll be a technical assessment, hour and a half. Candidate shows up, maybe the first 30 minutes is, let me ask you a bunch of technical questions, fire them at you. Okay. Now, can you pull up an IDE? And we’re going to have you do this live coding assignment. And the candidates never seen it so they’re trying to literally read requirements while three people are staring at them, figure out how to build a thing and then live code. Who can do that? I’m sure some people can, but how could you actually show what you’re actually capable of if you’re reading requirements in front of people staring at you for the first time? Sorry, that was a tangent, but that’s something that I feel very passionate about lately is allowing people this time and space to come, ready to show you what they can do.

Tobi:

Right. From a candidate, I think that it’s not a fun experience going through that kind of process of just gotchas all over the place. I think another rationale why we have been pursuing this is even from an equity standpoint. You want everybody to have a similar experience. You want to ask the same question, because if you’re comparing candidate A and candidate B, you want it to be comparable, not like apples to oranges. So the context of the interview, whether the questions you ask, how you ask them, the complexity, should be relatively the same.

Tobi:

Some people do better by having a lot of time to think about things before they can respond. Other people can just fire it up. But we don’t want to have an interview process that is skewered towards people that can improv all the time. You want to also be inclusive about everybody who might take some time to figure out how do I answer this? It is a great experience for the candidate, but also this equity been put in there that it makes it a better level playing field, as much as we can. Of course, it’s not perfect, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Dan:

So knowing that through the process, you remove gotchas and try to essentially have the candidates provide their whole self and have the best experience possible. What are you looking for in a candidate?

Rowan:

Definitely one of the first things that I look for is, especially on a phone screen, when I’m asking people to tell me examples of situations, they may have found themselves in the workplace, right? I’m looking for a team aspect and a team mindset. How do they interact with other people on their team? Are they excited to contribute to a team? I think something that you can find blanket across the Detroit Labs organization is that we in general are just very team driven. We care about our teammates. We do most things as a team. So when I am screening somebody on the phone, I’m looking for, okay, they’ve worked in a team, they have contributed positively to a team, but also they care about the other members of their team. Because I think that’s another big aspect of it, is empathy. Being able to take care of their teammates, pick up work when needed and be able to support people when they’re facing problems.

Pedro:

Yeah, definitely with the interview process, there are some things that are different. And I’ve learned that it’s good to present it to your candidates saying my next few questions, maybe not sound super technical, you can be as technical as you like, but I’m really looking to see if through our process, if a candidate does appreciate feedback. If they take pride in their work. If they have those accomplishment moments that they keep track of. And if they would want to work with teams that value those same things. Especially with considering, not so much being a culture fit, but a culture add. I really, really appreciate that kind of idea. In a previous role, I worked with new hires and during the onboarding process, you talk about values of the business and of the company and all the time when you’d have a new person, there’d be this nervousness of, I think those things are important, but I don’t know how I fit into that.

Pedro:

And one of the important things I learned is that with each new team member, they’re bringing their own experience. They bring their own values and their own little bit of culture. And that changes your teams. That changes your company in subtle ways for the better. And it’s much more about if we identify those same things between us, between the candidate and the values that a company has, then it’s going to work all the better. If they’re able to contribute to that, instead of trying to force them to be a puzzle piece, to make them fit.

Dan:

Yeah. I like the culture add versus the culture fit. Culture fit assumes it will always be the same, nothing will change. Everyone brings something different to the table and that’s what makes a great company, great. Throughout the whole thing, we’ve talked about building a rapport and now we’re talking about, the process and what you look for. How do you make sure that you keep that connection with that person through what I’m guessing is not a one day type thing I’m guessing this takes place over the course of a few days, maybe a week, maybe two weeks as you’re working around schedules and things like that?

Rowan:

I think that a big piece of this comes into checking in pretty frequently with your candidate. As soon as you get an update about the status of their application and where they’re at. As soon as you hear back about a tech interview. You’re communicating that information to them. Another big piece of that for me, is finding out what communication my candidate prefers. So if they want me to send them an email and they don’t want me to call them, I’m going to do that. If they’d rather talk on the phone, that’s awesome. I’ve given candidates my cell phone number so they can text me if they have questions. It all just depends on what they’re looking for and catering it to the experience that they’re looking to have. I think builds that trust and lets them know like, Hey, I’m looking out for you. I heard this information just now I’m relaying it to you as soon as I heard it. So keeping that communication going is always super important.

Pedro:

Yeah. It’s always a best practice to keep the door open for anything that might happen. This week, I’ve heard back from a couple people I connected with a few months ago that are interested in positions, which that’s fantastic. I won’t say this because of my sparkling message skills. They understand just because if an interview didn’t work out the way that we thought it would, that’s okay. We can rework our approach on that, or we can rework those interview skills if we have to. But at the end of the day, I’m still the talent specialist for them. And that’s the awesome part of it. That each of us can still continue those relationships if it doesn’t work out today, totally fine. If the opportunity isn’t here today, that works too. Just making sure that you are leaving the door open to pick back up a conversation down the road.

Rowan:

Something else I want to add there too, is just that I feel all these things we’re talking about, like keeping your relationships up with your candidates, building that rapport, all of that, we see it pay off too, which is like the most rewarding thing in the whole entire world. And I had a candidate who I had the pleasure of making an offer to last week, who, before we hopped off the phone was like, can I just say something to you before you hang up? And I was like, yeah, of course. And he was like, I just really think that every recruiter should model what you’re doing at Detroit Labs, because this has been an incredible experience for me. It’s been so smooth. The timing has been great. I’ve known what’s happening every step of the process and hearing that feedback is like, okay, everything that we’re doing, everything that we just talked about, it’s making an impact is making a difference and it’s working.

Dan:

It’s wonderful that you say at Detroit Labs, but in reality, it’s everything that you all as talent specialists have put into this and the energy and relationships that you end up building with people. Quite honestly, it probably has absolutely nothing to do with Detroit Labs as an entity almost entirely to do with what you bring to the table. And that’s fantastic.

Dan:

And one of the things I’m going to go on a minor tangent here too, similar to Nicole earlier. And I think Nicole’s heard me say this probably a million times too. So we all grew up, I’m going to generalize this a little bit, but I remember hearing over and over and over again, you’re lucky to have a job. You’re lucky to have a job. You’re lucky to be employed here. You’re lucky to have this. And I would just feel like that was a real old way of thinking. And now, there’s so many great, great folks, great talent that these companies are lucky to have these team members. It’s not that you’re lucky to be employed. It’s that the companies are lucky to have great team members. So that’s my tangent that I like to go on. Is that something that you all agree with as well?

Nicole:

I don’t think I could agree more with it. Dan, I’ll quote you on this one, you always talk about the value of Detroit Labs walks in and out of the door every day. Granted we’re remote. So logs in and out every day. The people that are in your organization are what make you successful at the end of the day. And you can’t sell your products. You can’t do your work. You can’t create the next, most amazing, disruptive in the industry product without the people behind the scenes doing it. And so it’s thinking about not thinking everybody in your organization is the same. Everybody is an individual they’re going to need different things. Not just when we’re talking to them as candidates and recruiting, but once they’re with your organization. But in turn, if you are able to honor and value your people, they’re going to honor and value back and do some of their best work for you.

Pedro:

I love being able to say to potential applicants or people just wanting more information about us, that Detroit Labs is a people first company. And it’s so much more than a fun, little impressive blurb that we have on a website. In everything that we do, we actually we live it, we work it each and every day, and that’s a really huge part of what garners the interests in us and what keeps people into reaching out to us and to asking for more information about positions with us.

Dan:

So over the last, I think two years, I’ve learned a ton via Twitter of all places, thanks to two former team members, Jeff and Stu. The things they like show up in my feed all the time, more than most other than maybe Josh just because his love of fish. And it’s always culture things as it relates to largely software design and development companies. And one of the things that I’ve read more and more and more is that there’s a concept of interviewing the company. If you’re fortunate enough that you can do it, or in a position that you can do it, if not looking for the right things with that company, whether it be on a careers page, an about us page. Tell me a little bit about that because honestly, within the last couple years, that concept was new to me, and it started showing up in my Twitter feed. Do you agree with that concept of interviewing the company or searching for things? If so, what should you ask? What should you look for?

Nicole:

I think you should, if you have the opportunity to, because choosing a career or choosing a new position somewhere, that’s a big commitment and it’s a big decision to make. So you should feel like you have all of the information at your disposal before you decide that you’re going to accept an offer somewhere. I think a lot of times questions that I get, they’re always great questions, but a lot of people ask very technical questions to me on the phone about tech stack. Like what’s the tech stack like? What is this technical aspect of the project? Those are all really great questions, and I’m always happy to share. You can find a lot of that information in the job description. And I think you should take an opportunity during those moments, maybe to ask more about culture, what are your values? Think about the things that you as a person value and find out if the company echoes those things.

Nicole:

Because that’s really important to know. Culture wise, is this a place where you’re excited to be. Asked individuals that you get the opportunity to talk to you, what’s your favorite part about working for this company? What do you think about the values listed on the website? Do you see those reflected in your day to day working with these people? Digging in and doing that deep dig when you get the opportunity to speak to somebody one-on-one, I think is a great way to learn those important things about the role that you’re pursuing.

Tobi:

Yeah. And also just adding from a candidate perspective, being curious and asking about values and purpose and mission and all those things. Those things are not disqualifiers. If going through that process, it becomes a roadblock then maybe that’s not even a place you want to be. It’s good to ask those questions. They always lead to add like more excitement that this is what I want to do. Or maybe not right now. So just encouraging, in the process, going through all the X and O, this is the tech stack, this is the team I’m working on.

Tobi:

And even ask some of the bigger questions because when projects are difficult, those are the things that truly matters. What I’m doing everyday has meaning. I enjoy what I’m doing. In every interview process to have that mindset, because for the longest time, I didn’t have that mindset. Just being transparent, but just encouraging people to have that mindset, to ask those bigger questions of like, this are the things I care about as a person, what does the company stand here and there?

Tobi:

And as Pedro was saying, this is also opportunities to find cultural adds. Your strengths and maybe this company is not necessarily where I want them to be, but this is what I bring to the table. And this is where I see I can bring change and maybe your questions become how flexible is your vision to change or new ideas. And so he just steamroll into a more healthy relationship, whether that means starting a job next week or in seven months or in two years, it’s a good conversation to have beyond just technical details.

Dan:

I was going to add one thing before you jump in, Nicole. I’m sorry. We had a great comment come in on LinkedIn. And I feel like it ties in very nicely with what we’re talking about and I’m going to bring it up here, but Nicole says I’m one of those would love information about your open positions and what Detroit Labs actually does. I say all, this is a Detroit based designer who is really interested in any open positions. And I think it’s a great question because we’re talking certainly about the importance of candidates interviewing and asking the right questions, candidates going out and searching for the right content. And we have also struggled with that, presenting that content and presenting that information for candidates to just go find. They can ask you those questions while they’re talking to you and you can give great answers back to them.

Dan:

Our team members can provide great answers, but we haven’t done a great job of providing all of that information for candidates to dig up and look at. And even just recently, we launched a new careers page that gave more information about us, our values, who we are, what open roles, and that’s been a big push for us to get that communication out there and to build on what Nicole A. Moore is asking about what we actually do.

Dan:

We work with big clients from concept, strategy, design, development, launch, and follow on work on the services side. We integrate and build great software teams on the onsite side. And then when it’s time, we do apprenticeships, too. Working to provide skills to team members, to grow our team, grow integrated other teams with large companies. So that’s a little bit of a brief of what we do at Detroit Labs, but I think Nicole highlights something here that’s very important. As a business, we continue to work on getting more of our content out there for when you are ready to look for it. So not just a live stream, not just a podcast, not just a phone call with one of our great talent specialists, but having it out there at all times. I thought it was a great comment. I thought it worked in perfectly with what we were talking about.

Nicole:

If you don’t mind, Dan, I wanted to add one last point to that last question about interviewing the company, if possible. So the thing I wanted to share about that is more on the company side, whose doing the interviews. So a candidate doesn’t necessarily have to ask questions, but I think just identifying if you’re the candidate, how you feel in that interview based on how the interview team made you feel. Did you feel uncomfortable? Did you feel like they were firing questions at you? Like they weren’t listening to you?

Nicole:

For those companies that’s, that candidates first experience with you. It’s almost like a restaurant and they’re probably going to go tell their friends how their interview went. We’ve gotten a lot of great feedback recently from our interview teams, just having casual conversations at services and how comfortable it helped the candidate feel. So just thinking from the company standpoint, you should be creating a comfortable environment for your candidates, because if they’re feeling like that first interview was really intimidating and gross. That might make them feel that’s how it is to work at your company. So that’s the only last point I had on that is just in addition to asking questions, take a moment and identify how your feeling through that process. And I think that’ll guide you a little bit in your decision.

Dan:

Awesome. All right. So as we wrap things up here, knowing that at Detroit Labs right now, we haven’t had a plethora. Do you like that word, Tobi? A plethora. A cornucopia of open opportunities right now. Different skillsets, different roles, different clients, integrated or within services so there’s a lot of different roles that are out there for someone looking for career opportunities and looking for this type of partnership that you provide through this. How can they reach out? What is the most efficient way for them to get ahold of you?

Rowan:

I think applying is number one. If you see something that you want to pursue, of course apply. We can get in touch with you. Another big thing and I’m kind of biased, I bring this up a lot, but CoLabs is an amazing opportunity to talk to us about these open positions. CoLabs happens once a month on the last Wednesday of every month because of COVID, we’re hosting it in our discord server right now. If you want to see what the community’s all about and see some testimonials and stuff, it’s DetroitLabs.com/CoLabs. But Nicole, myself and Pedro, we attend those events and we will be there to network with you to chat with you. We can pull you into a one-on-one meeting if you want, and tell you all about all the opportunities that we have available at Labs.

Rowan:

And from there, if you want to grab our emails and stuff like that, we can totally give those to you. But that’s a great opportunity not only to meet us, but also to meet a bunch of the actual employees at Detroit Labs on the dev side, because they come to mentor at our event. So if you want to hear about a day in the life from somebody who is a dev at Detroit Labs, that’s a great way to meet those people and get a feel for who we are and what we do.

Tobi:

Yeah. One thing I wanted to add as well, I think Nicole was talking about this pre show is a lot of people are at their job with a passive. It’s not bad, it’s not great, just kind of there. But also we’ve heard a lot of feedback of going through this apply and interview process and then finding out midway like, oh, maybe this is something that you should actually do. So you might not be actively like looking for a new role. Maybe you’re just curious about what Co-Labs is like.

Tobi:

If you have a Wednesday, and if you have an hour to just like, Hey, let me just see what it’s about. Or let me talk to Nicole or Pedro to see what this kind of process is like. It doesn’t hurt to give it a shot because I think that’s how we find out what is out there. So you might not be actively looking, but just having that curiosity is a good thing. We’ve had a lot of team members come from CoLabs and just be curious, stay curious. That’s a great way to look at life in general.

Dan:

All right. Awesome. Well, Nicole, Rowan, Pedro, thank you so much for joining us. We’re going to move you backstage as Tobi and I wrap things up. Hang out, back there and wait for us so we can have a little recap. Thank you.

Tobi:

Yeah. I’m just going to answer one question I saw in the comments about, if computer science degrees are [inaudible 00:36:56]. The answer is no.

Dan:

Is it a prerequisite for a computer? You said yes and no.

Tobi:

The answer is no.

Dan:

Oh, the answer is no. Okay. All right. I do like that. I like that that it’s not about the credentials you have. It’s about who you are, what you know. It’s very much more about that than the piece of paper you have or sticker or certificate or whatever it might be, because that’s incredibly important.

Dan:

Now, a couple housekeeping things. So this month’s CoLab study hall event is on June 30th. So in the comments on LinkedIn, Diana has a link there. I don’t know. I think we have a meetup.com/CoLabs. That’s a long URL, so I’m not going to play that name it all, but June 30th. Also, if you’re looking from a career standpoint, try labs.com/careers. It’s our brand new careers webpage, thanks to Dave and Diana and many others that helped with that, Aaron, Erica. Getting all of our great content up there for folks to go and read a little bit about us and some of the open positions that we have. So any parting words before we get wrapped up here, Tobs?

Tobi:

I think this was a great episode. I’m glad we did it. Just when I think about the terms that stood out, like with almost every other topic, it almost always comes down to just people and relationship building in general, if you want to put it. I’m glad we were able to do this episode. Nicole, Pedro and Rowan, they are great. I get to work with them very often and I’ve learned a lot of stuff from all three of them.

Dan:

Awesome. Well, Nicole mentioned my favorite phrase, which is the value of our company walks in and out of the door every day. I don’t think you can attribute that to me necessarily. I think either Paul or Nathan taught me that early on. We’re a services company so certainly there’s heightened value when it comes to that. But I would argue that product company, service company, I don’t care who you are. The value of your business definitely walks in and out of the door. It’s your team members. It’s the people, it’s the connection that they create, the energy that they bring. That’s what makes a company truly successful. So with that, we bid you, ado. [crosstalk 00:39:25] Tobi, I had a plethora of new words today. Okay. Everybody have a great day and we’ll talk to you later.